Kisses from Kenya Episode 5: Mouthpieces & Mirrors

Premiered on 22 Dec 2025  Kisses From Kenya

What does it mean to live abroad as an American without becoming a spokesperson, a saviour, or a walking symbol of U.S. power? In this episode of Kisses from Kenya, we explore representation, projection, and the uneasy mirror Americans hold up when they leave home.

In Episode 5, Brendan and Vuyanzi dig into the idea of being seen as a mouthpiece and the fear of reproducing neo-imperial dynamics abroad. Vuyanzi reflects on moments where American presence, even when well-intentioned, carries assumptions of authority, influence, and cultural dominance. Brendan examines what it feels like to be treated as a representative for all Americans, or all queer people, and the pressure to explain, defend, or soften the United States from afar.

Together they talk about power, self-awareness, guilt, responsibility, and how living in Kenya sharpens their understanding of how American identity is read, resisted, and sometimes rejected.

This episode explores neo-imperialism, representation, identity abroad, cultural power, and the emotional labour of being American outside the United States.

Chapters

• Introduction
• Whose America Is It Anyway
• Being seen as a mouthpiece
• Neo-imperialism and good intentions
• Holding a mirror to ourselves
• Closing thoughts

Transcript

Vuyanzi 0:06

Hey, Kisses from Kenya is produced by Democrats Abroad Kenya, but everything you hear in this podcast reflects our personal perspectives.

Brendan 0:17

As Americans living in Kenya. Yes. Nothing we say should be taken as the official stance of Democrats Abroad Kenya, Democrats Abroad Global, or the Democratic Party. And this is an entertainment space and not an official policy platform.

Vuyanzi 0:33

Thank you.

Brendan 0:35

Well, today we're getting existential. And the question we're asking is are we the baddies? And my daughter means I know I'm a baddie.

Vuyanzi 0:42

Speak for yourself. Although maybe.

Brendan 0:48

Okay. Well, today's episode is called Mouthpiece of the Mirror. And we're really exploring all the different kinds of aspects of what does it mean when your identity means something more?

Vuyanzi 1:05

Or you think it means something more. But what is the whose America is it anyway? Uh you want to share with us some of the headlines?

Brendan 1:16

About the continuing slide of defascism, yes.

Vuyanzi 1:21

So our first headline is I'm so sorry. I find myself I'm breathing so heavily out loud. Like it needs to be in my mind. What do they call it?

Brendan 1:31

The spiritual side?

Vuyanzi 1:32

Yes. Oh gosh. Alright, sorry. Try to be quiet over here. What is it this time? Okay.

Brendan 1:44

When I mean, when um what's the reference that I want to make and is escaping me at the world? When Annalise Keating does her ugly cry with a snot running down the lip. Oh my gosh. Did we tell her this time? No, we don't give her awards. I think Davis has done that ugly cry in half of her role. Oh my gosh. I always think about her infenses also when she had that snot running down the lip.

Vuyanzi 2:07

And not even stopping it.

Brendan 2:11

It's just like other people have the single tea or she got the single sneaker.

Vuyanzi 2:16

I love it. And she does not write she's not doing this. So maybe it's gonna let that rest.

Brendan 2:20

Okay, got it. Give us your deep sight. I needed that. So our first headline is that the US threatens to stop funding a Barcelona library over its diversity policy. So now not only are we micromanaging what people do within our borders, but it's like also, hey, Americans overseas, you also need to like stop it. And what's crazy is it it's it's not like like it's in Barcelona, but it's an American run.

Vuyanzi 2:56

I I just you know what when of course we were pre-reading this a bit, it just makes me feel sad. Just effing sad. Because I'm just like has white supremacy not been enough within our borders. Within we gotta export it. Seriously, like and and you're really, you know, and of course I'm thinking that that time when he when the guy in office, I don't even want to really say his name, but uh because we have to read it anyway, probably, but when he said to the countries at the United Nations that awful speech he made, and he's like, Oh, because you're opening your borders and all the countries are all going to hell. What the hell is that?

Brendan 3:39

Okay, yeah, that's this next one to me is crazy because it's so it's saying that like the US embassies globally have told their suppliers to comply with Trump's banana diversity program. And my thing is like, so what's next? Like, you're gonna tell me that like we're here in Kenya and you need to go find a white supplier? Like, because you only want to deal with white people, seriously.

Vuyanzi 4:02

Like, I just felt a streak of pain just rush through my head.

Brendan 4:06

What does diversity even mean when you're in a country that is majority non-white?

Vuyanzi 4:11

Quite frankly, what does that mean? And also, what's American? What is an American name, by the way? And also, like, what is that? Why is it your business? Wow. Because this is this is how this stuff works. Okay, let's just finish this soon.

Brendan 4:28

You know one thing about white people, we're not very good at minding our business. I've evidenced by every character we know on the student.

Vuyanzi 4:35

As evidenced by like every continent and every everyone. What you all got going on today? Brown, I see brown people. Oh, geez.

Brendan 4:50

I'm gonna come and take all of your seasonings, and I will continue to not use them with my teaspoon. I'm just going to do it. I want access, I want to know I have the option.

Vuyanzi 5:06

Oh, that reminds me of a story, but it's not even relative right now. Okay, okay, I'm sorry. I really have to deviate for a moment. And this friend, I'll have to send this episode to. I have a very good friend. Um, let's call her Lisa. That's not her name. And so she's white. This part is really important. So back when I was living in Pierremont, New York, the village in New York I used to live in, we had just become friends. And so um one day she came over, I think with some food, or she was gonna cook some food, and me and my friend were there. Who and my friend is black from the Bronx. And we're like, oh, you're gonna cook. Oh, and then what does Lisa say? Are you saying that because I'm white? We're like, yes. And then she takes out the spices. Why? Because she lived in Guam for like 20 years, so she has she does not knock it out. Because we were giving side eyes, like, oh, you brought the food, good.

Brendan 6:03

I mean the the only stereotype that I've never been able to escape, even after decades of living in the deep south and now in East Africa, is like, I love me some dairy. Like you know why people love dairy. If it's got some milk in it and some cheese, like my girlfriends back in that room, she used to be like, baby, like you're not supposed to consume that much like lactose. Like, I actually think like some of your health issues might not have like the gone just have to be what it is. I was like, y'all don't complain when I make the mac and cheese now, do you? Would I make it with that bechel? It's got some milk up in there, like oh gosh.

Vuyanzi 6:44

Or I miss mac and cheese.

Brendan 6:46

Oh yeah. Um I'm okay with that. I have a block of cheese in the freezer. I need to use to make a cheese sauce.

Vuyanzi 6:54

Oh, can you call me when you do?

Brendan 6:56

Okay, thank you. Because I've been looking at that like, what am I gonna do with this?

Vuyanzi 7:00

Yes. Oh, back to the cheddar.

Brendan 7:03

Anyway, I think we're done with this. Yeah, can we? I don't want to, I can't.

Vuyanzi 7:06

Let's well, I mean, not that this is the US depression, but listen, so okay, so this is the faces in the well, right now, I'm what's on my mind is are we neo-imperialists? So here's what it comes from. So as a uh okay, we've labeled ourselves some folks in a group, in a WhatsApp group, black expats. So we come over, however, it's like we're taking in an informal way some of the way we are in America and enforcing it, if you will, here. Or either even doing the things that we would not do in America and somehow being better than, and I'm putting air quotes around better than better than here. So a couple of things that stand out for me. Um in America, think about when you leave a job and you want to get hired by another one. Now it's illegal, I think, for them to ask you, well, how much did you make at your old job? Yet, here with some of the domestic workers, I've seen some of our my well, not yours, but some of my own black expats say, Well, I paid this one, this one, so make sure she doesn't charge you a different price. Yet if you were in America and that sued for that.

Brendan 8:33

I mean, you could also get sued for that here, but right.

Vuyanzi 8:35

Well, and well, and I see some of those whispers. And I'm sorry if I'm calling people out. Not sorry if I'm calling people out. Because how can you, just like in America, you would have tried to negotiate a higher rate, you're going to somewhere else, you're up-leveling. How can you begin to dictate and say, no, we don't wish you to do that? We want you to stay where you are economically. And I just think, are we really kind of, and that's just one example, I could give you others, but are we kind of like imperialists, even though we have this black skin? Are we still doing basically the same thing that a lot of them like to say the colonizers did to us? Are we maybe the question should be, are we colonizers?

Brendan 9:18

Oh, shoot, S just got real right then.

Vuyanzi 9:22

Sorry.

Brendan 9:22

Anyway, no, I mean I mean, what's what what's interesting, what it makes me think of is like there's been a lot of dialogue around like this term expat. Because I mean, mostly it was like originated with, you know, white people. Um and you know, it like originally it was because like like I mean, let's just be honest, like white people didn't feel comfortable being labeled immigrants. Because it's like but like I I actually like because I kind of heard some of this discussion, and also just because I think a lot of the people in the expat space can be kind of challenging, problematic. Yes, sorry, not sorry. Um but like I mean I've I have begun to consciously use the term immigrant like in reference to myself. And I've started like saying, you know, as an immigrant, you know, like as an American immigrant, like in East Africa, like and what's like fascinating is watching like the gymnastics that people's facial when I say that. Yes, because I'll be like, as an immigrant, they're like like yes, yes. Yes, yes, and I'm like, baby, it's okay. Like we we we have the I word, big eye.

Vuyanzi 10:39

Big eye as I just had this discussion, and I was thinking, did we just do it? Because while I'm labeled the black expat and black expats group, when I do speak about myself in real time, I say immigrant, and people you're talking about facial gymnastics. People have seem to have gotten offended. Yeah, it's like they have to be like I had someone say, You're not an immigrant. I'm like, no, no, I am.

Brendan 11:08

I grew up in one land and I have migrated to another.

Vuyanzi 11:13

I am an immigrant and no one sent me here to work. And especially that, like I came, you know, as my own choice to come here. I am an immigrant, so I do love, and I know it's a little bit controversial, and I love to see people's reactions to it, but absolutely we migrated, hence we are immigrants.

Brendan 11:34

I I mean, I think all of that points this like idea that it's like number one, like our identities are very layered, like like none of us have one overarching soul identity, right? Yeah, because once you layer class, race, gender, now like you know, nationality and like physical place, because those two things interact in different ways, like it changes, right? And you're also, I think, pointing to an interesting part of how some of those identities change in different contexts, right? Because like being a black American in America and being a black American in East Africa can mean two very different things, even though it's exactly the same identity.

Vuyanzi 12:21

I I love that. Um, oh my gosh, like I feel like these every segment we do could have multiple parts. And here's the other 14 points of our dun dun dun, you know, taking out the skull. Well, okay, and even how we relate to that and how we relate to what we do in our identity. So now, am I helping because I am a black American, so I feel that I am in Africa. Let's just say Africa, because Americans like to say that. Africa is a country. Yes.

Brendan 12:57

Well, and they also do it, there's like that way they say it where it's like you're over there in Africa. And then it's like I watched like Africa, and it's like they're thinking of like what was that movie? Which my uncle sent me that when I said I was moving. I think I got two minutes in, and I was like, I need to turn this off before I change my thoughts about you and Mail Street forever.

Vuyanzi 13:30

Oh God. Okay, so so the idea of helping in Africa, Africa, Africa. And also my friends have talked about those fake accents and not even real. Okay, sorry, sorry, let's let's go to this. Now, am I helping or am I imposing? Right? Because even this whole idea of when you're helping someone, um, and you're not even really asking them how you can help, right? So you go in, I'm going to help you, and but you're doing something where maybe the the perspective is completely different. And again, this goes to is that our imperialism, if you will, coming and saying, well, this is how you're supposed to be helped.

Brendan 14:13

Well, you'll you'll watch someone who like, and I mean, I definitely see it, I mean, I've I've seen it with people that I've interacted with that are black Americans. Of course, I've also of course I've also seen it with the white Americans. Yeah. But it's like you'll see someone who, if it's like to use like an example of a white American, like if they were doing a project in like a black and brown community in the US, like they know that it's like, I need to co-design this intervention with people from the community, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, like they they have that training and they know that, right? So in their own context, they would do that. As soon as like their toes touch down on the red clay soil, it's like that section of their brain goes dark. Isn't it yes? And it's like you turn around and you're enacting exactly the thing you know not to do at home, yeah, to someone here. Because it's like, oh, but you don't get a voice.

Vuyanzi 15:10

Again, is that imperialism? Is it colonizing? Is it because and and and so it made me think even uh this thing that I was volunteering for where the snack came with me. Uh, we'll call that guy a snack from another episode. If you missed that episode, you'll have to go back to another one. But um, so that place I'd been going to, I'd been calling the contact person. Like, what do you guys need? And because I was really conscious of that thing of, well, I I think they need this, I think they need that. Um, so what is that? The I'm gonna say it, I can say this, some black saviorism. And I don't even, and I'm thinking about like, okay, this is going to a whole nother thing, but maybe we can discuss more of this. The being, how do we say it? Let me let me figure out how to say it. When you're helping someone and then you want to chronicle it or put it on social media. Now, wondering what is the thought process behind that? Is it look at me with the little African children? Or is it donate? Like, you know, because sometimes it's donate.

Brendan 16:22

I mean, that's it's something that comes up for me a lot, right? Because like I spend, like we've talked about a lot of times outside of Nairobi doing projects with Rotary, doing projects with whatever. Yeah. And you know, like, like the people who know me know that it's like, you know, I chronicle everything for my story, but it's because like that's like my I do it almost for me. Like, like that's like my journal, you know. Or it's like, you know, like like the stuff with the kids that we talked about last episode, like I'll record bits and pieces of that just because I think it's funny. Like I know my friend, like I know my like Kenyan friends will think it's funny. Um and so, but it's one of those where it's like I I feel like lately I always go back to that um that old we always talk about sex, but there's the there was the Supreme Court decision in Larry Flint versus the United States, where the Supreme Court justice, I think it was Berger, said um I think it was um Chief Justice Berger said, I don't know how to define or maybe it was RandQuest actually, but it was like I don't know how to define it in reference to what is pornography like versus what is art. Yeah. And he was like, I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it. And so it's like there's just a line where it's like when I see someone on their Tinder profile and it's a picture of them surrounded by a bunch of like African children, then I'm like, this this now feels exploitative and like it's like you're performing, like it's performative at this point.

Vuyanzi 17:56

Yeah.

Brendan 17:57

And like, but I think a lot of times that comes down to the intent, right? Like, if your intent is to be like, look how great I am, yeah, versus like I happen to be doing a thing, but also like, you know, here's a funny thing that happened while I was doing it. Yeah, the intent is very different.

Vuyanzi 18:13

Yeah, well, okay, and so, and so, you know, we have this conscious and unconscious. Could it be unconscious? I mean, I I'm digging deep here. Um, wait, but sorry, speaking of Larry Flint, yeah, um, was he the hustler to this club? And speaking of Shreveport from another episode, there was a hustler's club in there was a hustler's club in Shreveport. I definitely visited there today. No, I visited it one time. You don't want that up there. Anyway, sorry, I just have to go back to that. However, but so I have more thoughts on sure. So, but okay, with that whole thing, I wrestle with that. Yeah. I wrestle with it because I'm thinking, and in fact, yesterday when I went to the place I went to, the woman who who's a part of the thing, she sent me a lot of pictures, and I'm wrestling, like, I didn't know they were taking pictures. Do I post this? Like, what is going to be the thought behind it? So I do, I I struggle. I have a personal struggle because I'm like, what does this look like? What is it being interpreted as? And really, I'm struggling over something I have no control over. Yeah, it has to be about my intent because people will say, Well, oh, you just are doing that, or people say, Oh, that's great. Like, people are going to be people.

Brendan 19:35

It's always gonna be something. Yeah, I've learned that through all the times I've been canceled on Twitter. So um that's another story for another episode. Oh, I can't wait for that episode. It has to do with our usual exploits, but um no, I I think that it's one of those where um, you know, like I I think if you look at it from a comms perspective, like communication, it's always like, what is like your call to action? Or like what is the thing that you like hope to inspire in the person who's watching it? And so, like, I know for me at least, like if I'm highlighting a project that we're doing, it's because like I mean, you you know me well enough by now to know that like my intention is to be like give me your money for the project. Exactly. There you go. Look at this thing that's happening. Don't you want to be a part of it? The call to action is like come by either donating your time, your services, your money, or whatever.

Vuyanzi 20:28

Yeah, yeah.

Brendan 20:29

So if that's the intent, like that's gonna land very differently than like look how great I am. Yeah, or like you know, like my call to action is like, you know, follow me for more time. I hate those people. So it's like the ones who are just bebopping around in like the village, and like yeah, I'm judging.

Vuyanzi 20:50

That's a whole other thing.

Brendan 20:51

That's a whole other thing.

Vuyanzi 20:53

So, so now I know we have spent so much time on my thing. I think we're good.

Brendan 20:57

Yeah, I I that was all very good. Okay, and I would also say to you, as the viewers and listeners, like any of the stuff that we talk about, of course, there's so much more that we could dig into.

Vuyanzi 21:08

So we have to stop ourselves.

Brendan 21:10

If you have thoughts, like send them, or like if there are specific facets of any of these topics that you'd love to see us like dissect, we're all about it. And hey, if you want to be a guest speaker, we'd love to have you on to come and talk with us. So it's not just the two of us yapping about our sex lives.

Vuyanzi 21:27

Just the two of us. A few social topics.

Brendan 21:31

I know. I feel I hope my father never watches this.

Vuyanzi 21:35

Oh my god.

Brendan 21:36

I hope my kids never watch this. I know he will, so it's skip through some of the parts. There's nothing in here you don't already know. Um so I think this actually brings us to one of our new segments that we haven't done before. Which I think is actually a good segue from what we've been through. Today, yeah. I think today it's really good. Which is what we call the Culture clash hotline. So this is one that ideally we'll be getting some maybe voice notes, some clips from you guys that we can splice in and like great. Like, or I mean, like that's why I called it the hotline because it's like you remember back in the day, like when they call into Larry King Wild.

Vuyanzi 22:18

Oh my god, I love that. Even Oprah used to have a back in the day. Caller you say what? We go to this caller and Phil Domingue. Sorry, I just took it there.

Brendan 22:32

So do you want to tell your culture back to the stuff?

Vuyanzi 22:34

Yeah, yeah. I you know what, and it's it's one, but it's mini all in one. So it just so happens I order pizza from a particular place. I love their pizza, but I can't say the name because of the story I'm going to tell. We're not so bad blast. No, not at all. So the delivery guy comes, he's always very nice. I do tip him. And this is important for Americans to know. This isn't necessarily a tipping culture, the way we are in America. So that part is important.

Brendan 23:00

And uh And also I think important to know that like people that do things like delivery make well below minimum wage.

Vuyanzi 23:09

It's not, it's it's not a job where you're getting paid a lot, it's just not a tipping culture. Yeah. Uh, although a lot of us brought it here, are my imperialists? Okay, but anyway, I tip him. And so he has my number because of the way I pay him with my mobile wallet that has my uh my my number. And one day he said, Hi, how you doing? I'm like, hello. This is odd because I didn't order pizza. And then he asked me for money, and this part is important because it's not the first time it's happened here. And coming from the culture that I've come from, like people that you don't know don't just ask you for money, yet it's something here that has happened to me often. It took a while for me to get used to it.

Brendan 23:54

I'd almost say, like, I mean, one of the things I hear a lot, like from my Kenyan friends, is like like there's this Harambe culture, right? Which is like the culture around like it's community. You get put into the fundraising group, everyone chips in.

Vuyanzi 24:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it it's not weird in the way that it is. For them, right, for us, because I well, the thing is to that point, I think that it's more communal, right? That's what we're talking about. Communal. And I I feel like as Americans, we're very individualistic. And and so when a security guard asked me for little something, something, and the pizza delivery, yeah, a pizza guy asked me for little money, and I'm thinking, well, you didn't work and my this is my American mentality. Well, I mean What did you do? Yeah, exactly. Outside of that, because the pizza guy, I'll continue to tip him. Yeah, you know, when someone does something nice for me, I will continue to tip. However, the call out of the blue for money for me, it was a bit of a culture shock when I first came. Yeah, now I'm used to it and I know it's no big, it's a thing.

Brendan 25:00

Well, it it's also something around like getting used to the fact that like saying no is also okay. Yeah, I think in a way that it's not okay.

Vuyanzi 25:08

Oh my gosh, yes. Because I had that's why I struggled with it, because it's like now it's like, sorry, but I'll see you later.

Brendan 25:16

I had a whole session with my therapist about this. I'll tell you about that later. That could be a topic, saying no. Um, yeah, no, my I I had a mine is also money related. Um, so you know, I just typed up Mount Kenya a few weeks ago um in support of a project for Machaco's Technical Institute for the Blind. And I like it was really interesting how like I found the culture clash really on the opposite side, which was like, you know, I mean, you you know, I I love being a good fundraiser. If y'all don't know, I'll be on the internet asking the people for their coins with regularity. If you are in my phone book, you will get hit up at least four to five times a year. I love it. Because I'm on three NGO boards and have 400 projects. So if you're watching this, feel free to follow me on Instagram. I'll DM you and ask you for my I love that. But um, you know, like so like we were getting ready, and I was like, you know, like I had this like whole like montage of like, you know, you know, we're hiking for like Machacos Technical Institute, blah blah blah, Machacos to Mount Kenya, you know, sponsor a hiker, sponsor a kilometer, sponsor a meter client, blah blah blah blah blah, you know, all this stuff. And like at one point I'm going on and on about it, like while we're driving to one of these hikes at like five in the morning, and like my co-pilot, um, who's Kenyan, was like, well, you know, like you're thinking about this like an American, like, Kenyans don't give money like that. And I was like, similar to like what we were just talking about. I'm like, y'all be asking for money off. What do you mean? You can give 300 shillings because Aunt Phyllis is getting buried in the ground. Then you can give me 500 shillings because I'm climbing up the mouth for the body. Like, what's the meaning?

Vuyanzi 27:06

Somebody didn't even call it yet.

Brendan 27:08

You already are here for money. Anyway. Sorry, recipe. But so, like, I just like I I was like, I don't understand what you're talking about. Because I I was like, the thing is, I I was like, I mean, I was like, I guess, because she was like, well, no, it's like she was like, well, first she was like, you know, if someone asks like that, then like the assumption that the other person's gonna have is like you're using the money for the cost of the climbing. Interesting. And I was like, okay, oh well, that's definitely a cultural difference. And then I was like, and she was like, furthermore, like like they're just not gonna do it. And I was like, girl, you watch me. Yeah. Did they do it? Okay, yes. Well, I I mean I raised 500k, so it's not like and over half of the money that I raised came from Kenyan. So like obviously it wasn't a hundred percent correct. Wow. I mean, it was it was an interesting, I think, exercise in you know, because that that fundraiser and like most of the work that I do with rotary is in like primarily Kenyan spaces, like it was an interesting kind of reminder of like the fact that even almost six years later, like I still think about things like like an American. Yeah, yeah. And you know, granted, like, do I think getting that you know, five thousand-ish dollars would have been easier if I was doing this on the US side? Sure. But you know, that has to do with a lot of things, like it that has to do with the state of the economy right now, that has to do with so many layers, right? So it was just it was an interesting opportunity to also kind of like push her thinking, I think. Yeah, yeah. Because when I was out there like checking back in, like, girl, I just hit the 250k mark. She's like, Huh? Like, I mean just let me explain it.

Vuyanzi 29:11

How did you say we do it again? How do we do this? One kilometer equals what exactly.

Brendan 29:20

Well, I think that gives us a segue into our penultimate segment for this week, which is the queer black joint.

Vuyanzi 29:30

Yes, yes, yeah. Tell us about your black joint. Well, my black joint is coming from the weather. I feel like yeah, it goes back to sex again. I'm feeling it is the weather is warming up. Okay, the past two days have been a little red. I'm feeling it's getting hot in here. So as the Louisiana grandma would say, she's a little hot in the drama. Basically, the North Carolina grandmother said that too. I do feel warmer and happier. To my children who may be watching this. Were they born in the winter? That means they were conceived in the summer. The twins were born in the winter. And my daughter was born in the summer.

Brendan 30:22

That means shit. That was when you turned the heat on.

Vuyanzi 30:28

I'm done. That is my joy. Warmer weather equals a warmer and hotter me. And your your queer joy, please.

Brendan 30:38

I mean surprisingly, this time it's not about that.

Vuyanzi 30:42

Oh, wow. Just me.

Brendan 30:45

Not true. But so um, I mean, I I I know I told you about um how I was up in Nanyu Key. That was last episode, right? Yeah, last episode. Um and so it was, I mean, it was hilarious because like of course they were like fascinated with the tattoo. And and you know, like naturally it's like some are like, can I rub it off? Like there was there was a lot happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and you know, like had some really interesting conversations with some of the kids because they're like, oh, you know, like do like does having tattoos like mean that you're like a bad person? Because like that's what my pastor said. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, baby, I'm sure there are people with no tattoos in your church that are terrible people. And she was like, you know, you're right. I was like, see, like the kids you know them. Oh and I was like, and there's lots of like people with tattoos that are really good people, and we probably have done more than some of those terrible people. Absolutely. Um, but one of the kids was, I mean, of course, it's like Barbara Walter's like in the every time because it's like they just be but like, I mean, you taught to you know, kids just they ask whatever's in the cerebral hands out the mouth. Yeah. So one of the girls was like, Do you have a wife? And I was like, No. I was like, what if I have a husband? This is like a nine-year-old. She looks at me and she's like, Why would you want one of those? And I was like, I know you're right, because men are trash, aren't they? She was like, Absolutely. You said in another episode, they're like old people in little bodies. No. I was like, the kids are gonna be alright. Like, we're the problem. They'll be all right. 100%. But that was that was my career joy, right? I love it. Here's this like little one, like out in the like, you know, so you you cannot argue with me that she's you know, all the arguments, right? Like that they're consuming the media and blah blah blah blah blah. Here you are from the mouth of babes. Like, yes, the issue you have with that is that men are trash. So, like, why would you choose that for yourself?

Vuyanzi 32:54

Why? That was my great joy for me. I love it. I'm I'm here for the joy, here for the joy. All right, so you want to close this down? Yeah, I guess I can. Uh, so let me ask this question. What's one way I try not to be? That must be for you. Why you want to be the mouthpiece? I don't want to be a mouthpiece. I left from being a mouthpiece in the States.

Brendan 33:23

I don't know. I mean, but you're still a mouthpiece in a way, right?

Vuyanzi 33:27

Yeah, but let's wait, let's can we just cut that part for a second? Because I think we need to ask a different question because we really didn't do the mouthpiece mouthpiece.

Brendan 33:35

Oh, wait, wait, wait, because we skipped past that.

Vuyanzi 33:37

Exactly. So, what is a different question we can end with?

Brendan 33:40

Maybe it's like, what's one way that I try to be aware of my identity?

Vuyanzi 33:44

Okay, okay, okay, yeah, there we go. All right, so Alright, so you want to close us out? Yeah, so asking a question, I want you to think about one way that you maybe stay aware of your identity and what it means in context, really.

Brendan 34:06

I mean, I think I've it's something over the years I think I've trained myself to almost do a lot because like of all the. Because of where you were, yeah. Yeah. But it's it's something that I think I've tried to also expand my awareness of because even like when I like for instance, like I I had a a meeting with a client the other day, you know, who's a founder of a school and as a woman. Um and like one of the things that I just narrated to her in our initial meeting was I was like, I was like, I'm very conscious, like as a man about speaking over and for women. And so I was like, there are gonna be a lot of cases where like you might actually want me to push you more, you know, like or you might want me to be more directive, but like I'm not gonna do that unless you ask me to. Because I was like, I'm very conscious of the fact that like I as a man can come in here and be like, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. And then gaslighted you into like you know, thinking that that's all your idea. Yeah, yeah. So um but but that's the thing, right? I I think like really like truly living outside, like living outside the US has pushed me to like expand that awareness. Like I I think in the past, like especially living in the South, like race and gender were always kind of like top of mind, because especially working in primary schools, like I worked with a lot of black women, yeah, um, who were constantly disrespected by uh everyone else that we worked with. Yeah. Um but yeah, like here there's so many more layers to that. And so it's like, how can you not be the American taking up all the space in the room? Or the man taking up all the space in the room, or the white person, or in the certain identity question.

Vuyanzi 36:01

Yeah. Yeah. This is a bit complex because just to that point, my awareness is makes me listen more. And I and that will be my running theme throughout. Because even before I moved here, and I'm sure you've had this too, I already took up space in the room. Yes, and okay, we are two introverts, baby. Nobody sees us when we walk in the middle. It was already happening, so now, you know, taking up space, and now this accent and then the voice, you know. And by the way, you know, here a lot of times I'm super loud. I don't mean to be. So it's loud, it's it's taking up space.

Brendan 36:46

I usually wear some the microphone was baby.

Vuyanzi 36:52

Yeah. Hello. Is this thing on? Um, the you know, so so it's making me take steps back, not in being less of myself, however, just being more discerning. So knowing when to just be quiet. I was sitting at a table with um some Kenyan friends and new people that I had met, and and I found that maybe a few years ago I would have jumped into this very deep conversation they were having, right? But what I did was I was just like uh and I just for the most part, until like maybe about 45 minutes later, I was invited to come in. And I I was invited, I didn't push my way in, and then it it felt natural. So I think listening is helping me to be more aware of what's going on, and I learned, you learn. So that's for me.

Brendan 37:53

Well, friends, from our contradictions to yours, this is Kisses from Kenya. See you next time.